Christian’s belief in God’s work was evidence to me He didn’t exist

A while back I was speaking at an multi-denominational conference. During that week I had several men come up to me and make comments that are more evidence god is not real, well at least their god.

One told me that god had revealed to Him the anointing he (god) had put on my life. The man even told me that since his revelation he could see and aura around me. I literally glowed.

Another told me that during the prayer after me and before the next speaker that god told him that I was not speaking my words, but gods words were being spoken through me. My words were inspired as the Bible was inspired. God breathed them both.

The last told me that god had given him a word for me. The word was: Because I was letting god work through me in such a powerful way he (god) was going to do a mighty work though me. He was going to use me to train up a team of Christian speakers. I would soon be teaching others how to speak like me and to let god work through them as he had worked through me. The world will find it’s way back to god through my ministry and the ministries that would spring up from my teaching.

The truth is I was already a non-believer when this happened. God wasn’t in me working. He didn’t give me those words. As a matter of fact, I actually was already changing my sermons to be less “doctrinal” and more generic. I was trying NOT to be as evangelistic! I was not going to raise up any ministries under mine. I was not going to teach others to speak. I was already wanting to quit spreading the biblical messages I had, apparently, become so good at sharing.

If their god was real and he wanted to further his truth shouldn’t he have used the holy spirit to warn them of me? Shouldn’t I have been called out as a false prophet? Even though my message was in line with their beliefs shouldn’t god have at least made them feel uneasy to hear me preach? He could find someone else to preach through if he disposed of me, couldn’t he?

Wouldn’t he be obligated to give someone a heads up? There were over a thousand people at the one event. Either it was like Sodom and there were no righteous people there and god was going to destroy them anyway, or he was playing a sick prank on them by letting them believe in me as  god’s mouthpiece, or he doesn’t exist. I suppose there could be another explanation but those are the only reasonable ones I can think of off-hand.

It seems to me those people heard what they wanted to hear. They may have even heard what they needed to hear. I hope I encouraged them and made their lives better. But they did not witness “God’s Anointing”. I think their minds created in their heads what they wanted to experience. They were delusional. I am sure seemed very real to them. Each man seemed very sincere. A loving god would not fool his own children in such a way.

To me the most logical conclusion is that the god those men worship is not real. He is a mix of what they have read, been told, and what they want to believe.

150 comments

  1. archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

    The man even told me that since his revelation he could see and aura around me. I literally glowed.” – So they were serving liquor?

    Shouldn’t I have been called out as a false profit?” – Please tell me you’re not still thinking about the collection plates —

    It seems to me those people heard what they wanted to hear.” – Isn’t that usually the case?

    Liked by 1 person

    • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

      Cannot believe I spelled prophet wrong, lol. I remember auto-correct highlighting it because I missed the “e”, but I failed to look at it’s suggestion.

      Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        I smiled, as that struck me as a Freudian slip.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        Well, I can honestly say my ministry was not about money. It is odd that now the only reason I am still in is tied to money. I have not walked away because my family would suffer greatly and we could potentially loose our house and such. But if it was about the money I would stay in it, ramp up the emotional appeal and manipulation, and charge more money. I think my only path towards getting rich at this point would be in the church market and I am leaving it.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. tsentientpuddle · November 11, 2015

    Did you ask any of them what He sounded like? Am I the only one that thinks he would talk with an English accent, Colin Firth style?

    I find it entirely possible that an all powerful god can work through non-believers to accomplish his works, though being the father of a ministry seems like a bit of a stretch if you are leaving soonish. I’m just trying to think of a bible story regarding unbelievers accomplishing works for God … is there one?

    Thanks, as always, for sharing.
    Shane

    Liked by 1 person

    • Elizabeth. · November 11, 2015

      A prominent example is “messiah” Cyrus, Persian conqueror, in Isaiah 45 — YHWH says, “I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor though you do not acknowledge me” https://www.workingpreacher.org/preaching.aspx?commentary_id=164

      The good Samaritan wasn’t an Israelite; Jesus praised the Syro-Phoenician woman’s faith….

      If the conference-goers were coming from versions of Christianity that are harmful, then it’s intriguing to think how AD’s more compassionate “generic” version was striking a strong chord with listeners. I wonder if there’s a way for the coming-out process to avoid causing them to reject the improvement in theology they were so excited about. ….Life is surely complicated!!!!

      Liked by 3 people

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        in Isaiah 45 — YHWH says” – Actually, Elizabeth. (with a period, no less, nice touch!), someone SAID that YHWH said – there’s a big difference.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Elizabeth. · November 11, 2015

        I was assuming that, as in “in The Brothers Karamazov, Ivan says….” In the case of the bible, do you think it may be important to always include the qualifier?

        …and what an editor’s eye! I think you’re the first replier anywhere to use my “.” — necessary in order to be “Elizabeth” on WordPress and kind of fun. One of the newspaper sites
        took three periods to get ok’d : ) Thanks, arch!

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        Thanks, arch!” – Hey, I recognize a touch of class when I see it!

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        Forgot to mention, of the three, Ivan was always my favorite!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 12, 2015

        Yes… I really like Alyosha but i.d. with Ivan most . he makes it pretty impossible to believe there can be a divinity that is both good and powerful — the way he puts the question stays with me

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 12, 2015

        Alyosha’s a sweet kid, but Ivan is Charley Sheen.

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      • kelpie98 · November 11, 2015

        Arch – Of course many people will quote Dumbledore or Frodo or Huck Finn. It was Bilbo who wrote “All that is gold does not glitter. Not all who wander are lost.”

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        I’ve always been fond of, “Always be sincere, whether you mean it or not” – Mortimer Snerd, “Snerd’s Words for the Birds” –

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        Not all who wander are lost.” – I’ve been a wanderer, some who wander are exactly where they wish to be.

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        You should see Meteor Crater from the bottom –!

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        Like

    • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

      I surely believe an all powerful god could work through a non-believer, but given the stance their god takes on people speaking in his name without his guidance or even using his name without full respect I feel like it is inconsistent with his nature to be using me when this happened.

      I guess it depends how you look at the bible on using non-believers. Without the Romans Jesus would not have been crucified so he used them. There are numerous examples if you count those.

      Like

      • Elizabeth. · November 11, 2015

        There’s tremendous variety in the bible, but in the U.S. especially a very rigid approach has taken hold, unfortunately choosing some of the most unpleasant characteristics to attribute to a deity. If Christians say god is like Jesus, then it seems that “demanding respect” and “using people” doesn’t sound like much in the gospel accounts or descriptions of mutual love. As a sort of agnostic christian freethinker, I like the ways the process theologians are going, like Whitehead’s “[god] is the poet of the world, with tender patience leading it by his vision of truth, beauty, and goodness.” [“Process and Reality”]

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        Speaking of ‘process theologians,’ have you read, “Process Theology,” by Nash. A little hard to stay awake through, but interesting reading.

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      • Elizabeth. · November 12, 2015

        Thanks, arch! No, haven’t read Nash… and checking out the Amazon review, sounds like the essays he included were agi’n it! — “these authors agree that process theology is both biblically and intellectually deficient.” — Probably that’s why it appeals to me!

        Thanks a lot for asking — made me finally search Homebrewed Christianity and discover a bibliography of current process theologians http://homebrewedchristianity.com/2011/06/09/a-mega-post-process-theology-bibliography/ The Homebrewed guy is a doctoral student — named Tripp — which is
        what he is, for sure : ) I’ve been listening to some of his podcast interviews with theologians — it’s fun to do a little theology updating. I seem to be somewhere in Camp Furthest Out (I’m sure 99.9% of evangelicals would figure I’m way beyond Out!) Thanks again for the title!!

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 12, 2015

        Thanks again for the title

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 12, 2015

        Suddenly I’m remembering the old “Donatist” issue of Augustine’s day… whether a baptism was valid if it was administered by a bishop who had handed over his sacred books to avoid Diocletian’s persecution. Augustine argued that the operative agent is not the human being, but christ; that all depends on god’s grace and not on the purity of the priest. So… if your message was a good one, by Augustine’s measure, it could be used by god.

        A totally different question is the comments about you yourself … unless the future does a mindblowing about face, those couldn’t have come from the god they probably were envisioning… though here’s a maybe fourth option — maybe the process theologians are correct that in contemporary language, people like Tillich should be termed atheists… so that “the ground of all being” would approve
        of your rejecting literalistic theology : )

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        As I stated, I am sure there are other possibilities. Your being one of them, although I sure am leaning towards the one where their god does not exist.

        Now, I am not sure if they line up with Austustine’s version of god so I cannot say their god was using my good message, but I still bet Augustine’s god would not put a glowing aura around an atheist.

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      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        Yes, I would check their version as probably “does not exist” too; and I’d be surprised if their version lines up with Augustine’s version.

        But I could see Augustine’s version as putting a glowing good aura around “atheist” Tillich… or around anyone who was making a dent in harmful theology. : )

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      • Peter · November 13, 2015

        That is an interesting perspective you bring Elizabeth. However what came to mind for me was the Biblical passage ‘If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken.’

        Actually that verse is the essential apologetic statement, as it gets ‘God’ off the hook.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        Agreed, Peter! I was distinguishing between what AD might have preached (no specifics mentioned so far, I think) and the individual messages the three listeners said they heard from god. I agree that the likely falsity of those individual messages about AD means one of the three options AD suggests, and calls for the frustrating “test” you quote. The question of whether AD’s preaching could be used by a divinity is a separate issue, I think, and that’s what I was playing with….

        I have appreciated the experiences you describe, too…. I regularly lead a devotional at a nursing home, and I usually include parts that reflect what residents here in the bible belt have grown up with — nothing about hell, but references to Jesus giving himself for us, and singing hymns like The Old Rugged Cross. Occasionally someone will seem to have an ecstatic experience, which amazes me… I’ve never had one… and people tell me that being encouraged in prayer has been deeply meaningful for them. I do feel awkward, since I myself become ever more settled in my “freethinking” … but at the same time I can talk about and encourage the radical inclusiveness I do believe in, plus I’m glad that something can give these hard-pressed people joy…. As I’ve said… life is mysterious!!!!!!!!!

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        Elizabeth., I’m highly intelligent – no brag, just fact – top 2% in the world, but I have reason to believe that you are so much more intelligent than I am, that it scares me, and I’m fearless.

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      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        I’m probably top 50% on that there smart scale.

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        I’m sure there are a lot of scales on which I rank a lot less than that.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        uh…me too

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        Rabbi, cantor, and custodian in the temple. Rabbi beats his breast, lamenting “I am nothing! nothing!’ Cantor beats his breast, lamenting “I am nothing! nothing!’ Custodian beats his breast, lamenting “I am nothing! nothing!”
        Rabbi to cantor: “Look who thinks he’s nothing” : )

        So — me too!!

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        Clearly, modesty would be one of those —

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      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        Now dictator I am up for that!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        arch… kind, but operative term is OCD : )

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        arch… kind, but operative term is OCD : )” – You or me?

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        A real OCDer would have written that, CDO.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        “A real OCDer would have written that, CDO.”

        It was tough : )

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        It was tough.</em" – But you plowed through, way to overcome!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        ” ‘….operative term is OCD : )’ – You or me?”

        !!
        now there’s a tough one : [

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      • Peter · November 13, 2015

        Elizabeth, I had spent six years, up until April this year ministering in Nursing Homes. I found it very rewarding. I suppose the real breakthrough for me was to stop urgently trying to convert people and just focus on being their friends with no judgment or condemnation and not to take it personally when they did not wish to attend the Church services I ran.

        I also ensured we only used the old favourites as far as hymns go. People love to sing the music they remember from their formative ears. This aged care ministry is the part that I miss the most.

        If you want a light hearted hymn for the older folk to sing then look up the ‘Jesus loves me – Seniors version’, it should be pretty easy to locate on the internet. It would seem a bit out of order to post it on this blog. If you can’t find a copy let me know.

        I suppose that from ministering to people in their older years I struggled at times to find a theologically sound reason to explain the suffering as our body ages. I would seek to develop arguments that made sense to the folk about a loving God that somehow seemed unwilling to ease their very present current suffering.

        As I now look back on the situation, post faith, I have a different perspective of suffering, it is just how life is. But I don’t find that any more helpful.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        Thanks so much for Seniors’ Version! I had totally forgotten about it — will use it asap!!

        Yes, nursing homes bring you smack up against theodicy, no ignoring or papering over possible. The theology I wonder about nowadays is more a god or life force that is still in the process of creating the universe(s)… but I don’t talk about that directly. I do talk about Jesus’ question on the cross, and Job’s 40 chapters of protest… how one can take questions and anger to god, however they think of god… the mystery of how the spiritual can go “Nobody knows the trouble I’ve seen… glory, hallelujah”

        Sounds like you were a fantastic chaplain… do you still volunteer/visit? I hope?!

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      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        That came to mind for me too. It seems appropriate for both my message from the platform and their message to me from god about my ministry and future life. I believe at least one was “trying to prophesy”.

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        Has anyone actually sat down and determined just how many biblical prophecies came true, vs how many fell flat on their face?

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      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        Boy there isn’t the space or time to get into all that. Christians would say they have all come true and the ones that didn’t just didn’t yet…they will! If one was just wrong it is obvious that we interpreted it wrong to start with and it came true some other way or will eventually.

        Liked by 2 people

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        I am almost sorry I asked.

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      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        Don’t be (I know you aren’t).

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        I SAID almost –!

        Liked by 1 person

      • tsentientpuddle · November 13, 2015

        I was thinking more of non-believers speaking the Lords words, to mirror the situation you found yourself in. Unwittingly spreading His message, as it were.

        One more thing, and this is another thing that seems to be a contradiction to me, is how could God use you to do anything if we all have Free Will. A Christian at another blog is going on about this new job he is going to, and how it is a calling from God. How can that be? Some human must have created the position for him to go to independent of God’s will. Or God worked through this other person, we don’t have free will, and therefore can’t be held accountable and judged for our actions.

        Cheers
        Shane

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      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        I suppose the best way to describe it the way they believe that (I use to whole-heartedly believe we have free will and God uses us.) is using a child illustration as god is our father.

        So, your daughter (so the nice ladies will cut me some slack on my overly male bias to pronouns and such) wants to build a beautiful building in her room with the blocks you gave her for Christmas. She has a great relationship with you and knows you make better stuff than her so she asks you to build it for her. You, however know it is her room and her blocks and will be her castle. So, you will just help. You know will be the best castle for her.

        So, you let her pick the blocks to use. You already know what blocks she likes and how she thinks so you know how to incorporate all that into the castle. She picks a block and you tell her to place it. If she places it where you want, well great. If it goes anywhere that will work in the structure you know that is fine because you are concerned with the over-all structure and not all block placements will cause a major flaw in the castle. If she ever tries to make a bad mistake or do something that would ruin the castle you guide her where to put that block. You might explain that you cannot have one block on the bottom row of a wall and more blocks on higher rows because the wall will fall.

        You might even move some of the blocks as she places them. If you have to, you can step in a place them yourself. Maybe she gets to frustrated or really wants to see how you would finish one room in the castle.

        You see she had free will with the blocks and their placement but you used her to build a castle she was not capable to building herself.

        I think that is how they look at it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        But if she tries to build it to heaven, you confuse her language and scatter her to the ends of the earth!

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      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        and that is just the beginning of the torment in store!

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      • tsentientpuddle · November 14, 2015

        Not a bad analogy. But after the castle is built, does she deserve credit or do I? And if the castle sucks or falls down, it is not my daughters fault, but mine. She can’t be responsible if she had no hope of building it without me and thus cannot be judged on the merits or flaws in the castle.

        And of more interest is not when my daughter is interacting with blocks, but with other children. If I am wrangling small children at a birthday party, for example, I am responsible for who is invited and all the goings on at the party. Making sure they are safe and having fun, that there is plenty to eat and drink, even down to rigging the party games to ensure everyone wins a prize in “pass the parcel”. No-one holds the children responsible for tears or injuries. And nor should they.

        To carry this on to one more level, if God is like me, with the ability to stay my daughters hand, or even place the blocks himself, then why isn’t he responsible for the attacks in Paris today, by people who were, you can be damn sure, asking for his help and blessing as they went about their business of death and destruction. Why were those people acting entirely on their own, but God should get the credit for the good works?

        Shane

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      • adisillusionist · November 14, 2015

        how you put it is more how it should be but now how it was explained to me. I fit the analogy to what I was taught. Those who taught me would say the attacks on Paris today were because the men behind it follow a false religion. True followers of god would not do that. They follow a false god so they do evil things it is a part of free will and a fallen world. Only their god can give comfort and peace.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 14, 2015

        True followers of god would not do that.” -True followers of god wouldn’t slaughter Canaanites either, would they? Oh wait, they did.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 14, 2015

        old testament, they did it so we could look back and see how god wants us to completely clean out sin from our lives. It was an object lesson and wiped out pure evil. It was actually even good for the descendants of the Canaanites because their offspring would be cursed to because of the sins of their fathers being passed down generations. It was merciful to stop it all then.

        That is what I was taught.

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      • Elizabeth. · November 15, 2015

        ai yi yi yi yi

        This is so awful that it’s reminding me of a relative’s telling me that when Lot offered his daughters to the mob to “do what you like to them” it demonstrated just how bad homosexuality is — protecting men from being attacked is much more important than gang rape of your young daughters. They saw the horror as being simply “homosexuality,” and didn’t even register the violence dimension — much less the problem that Jude worried about — the fact that these were “hetero” flesh — angels (the “hetero” irony in Greek always delights me). I was shocked and deeply horrified, because this was someone I’d been close to. We humans can entertain some truly abhorrent attitudes — sometimes winding up with the object of our horror being a direct 180 off. …..But thanks, I think, for an example of how people try to rationalize animicide (people AND other animals). **yikes**

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 14, 2015

        Those who taught me would say the attacks on Paris today were because the men behind it follow a false religion. True followers of god would not do that.

        “Gods don’t kill people. People with gods kill people.”
        — David Viaene —

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        Shane, Neil Carter is addressing that issue on his “Godless in Dixie” site, discussing Tim Sweeney’s book, “The Reason for God, in which Sweeney maintains that angels were basically atomatons, who did exactly what their creator wanted, so he created humans to have free will, so they could CHOOSE to love him (and burn in hell if they didn’t – my addition), but if that were the case, how could Lucifer and fully a third of all of the angels in heaven rebel and get the heave-ho?

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        Well, he was the lead guy, Lucifer. He was given a limited set of choices not like our total free will. He chose badly and took many under his command with him. See, god used a bad guy to do his will. The situation allotted for our free will and god still isn’t the bad guy.

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        He chose badly and took many under his command with him.” – But didn’t they make the choice to go with him?

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      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        no, they followed their commander.

        Then they were all evil and could only do evil things. Again, no choice…just pure evil.

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        Like

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        It use to make sense. I realize now it made sense because it had to make sense. It was the way I was taught to fit it into the whole belief.

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        Liked by 1 person

      • tsentientpuddle · November 14, 2015

        Obviously that was God’s plan, along with man’s fall and the damnation of the majority of the human race. What a loving God.

        Shane

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 14, 2015

        I know, right?

        Liked by 1 person

  3. eolandeeliva · November 11, 2015

    “It seems to me those people heard what they wanted to hear.” And THERE you have religion in a nutshell!

    Liked by 3 people

    • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

      Where it belongs —

      Liked by 2 people

  4. Peter · November 11, 2015

    I know how you feel I had a similar experience two weeks after I concluded I did not believe any more. I was committed to act as the Spiritual Adviser at a Christian retreat. Ironically in the Q&A session after a presentation I was asked “how do we discern that it is God speaking to us and not our own thoughts?

    I answered that question by throwing it open to a general discussion of the people in the audience. After this session a Lady came up to me and said that God had revealed some matters to her whilst I was talking and she wanted to mention them to me privately. I thought, the game was up, but it turned out her message was all about how God was blessing my ministry.

    Still, as you found, in a funny way these experiences are comforting, as it is the experiential part of Christianity I had the hardest time explaining away and these sort of events help point to it being all in our mind.

    Liked by 1 person

    • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

      how do we discern that it is God speaking to us and not our own thoughts?” – When the voice in your head tells you something that you couldn’t possibly know.

      I hate it when the voices in my head go silent, I never know what they’re planning —

      Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        I think you can convince yourself the voice in your head revealed something you couldn’t know. These people experienced that, or so they thought.If any of the things they spoke turned out to happen they would have evidence of it. In there minds would be proof of god.

        I had experiences where I was convinced of god’s leading and wisdom that I could not have on my own. There were times where I felt god was leading me to make a decision that didn’t make sense. When I made it “His way” things turned out better than I could have imagined if I had made a different choice.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        If any of the things they spoke turned out to happen they would have evidence of it. In there minds would be proof of god.” – And if it didn’t, when then their god just said, ‘no’ – win/win.

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        True, but if they read and practiced their own belief they would know that if those things didn’t happen they would be considered false prophets and worthy of death. I doubt any will volunteer for that punishment when I come out.

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      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        Actually, you will be proof positive that Satan exists, if such a fine, upstanding, inspirational Christian can be so corrupted. I wouldn’t entirely dismiss the prospect of an intervention, so be wary of cargo vans with side doors, driving slowly behind you as you walk anywhere.

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      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        Maybe I will just cast demons into the people in the van. That will teach them to try to abduct me. Maybe I have a better satanic denomination that theirs.

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      • Elizabeth. · November 11, 2015

        I’m in the process of (re)reading Jung, and am fascinated by his ideas of our unconscious being a resource for us when we get “stuck” in our conscious understanding. I don’t know whether ideas like that would be helpful…. For me, they seem promising ways to try to understand “life, the universe, and everything” ….including religion : )

        Liked by 1 person

    • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

      Did you feel uncomfortable when she told you that? I wanted to tell all 3 “you are deceiving yourselves. This is wrong. Wake up people!” I was very uncomfortable.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Peter · November 11, 2015

        At that stage I was very fresh into my deconversion journey and part of me still sort of believed and I kept expecting ‘God’ to intervene and to put me straight, to show me that my views about the Bible being a human book were in error. I would have been relieved, at that stage, if she had a delivered a message that had shown true supernatural knowledge of my situation.

        But I certainly felt uncomfortable during the discussion. This Lady was a humble and caring person so I felt sorry for her, as she was hesitant to say anything. But felt she should obey the Holy Spirit.

        I had earlier in the day given a talk which included a story from July 2014 when I had felt led by the Spirit to give a particular Bible verse to a visiting speaker at a church meeting. The speaker later told that church meeting that a person had passed a Bible verse on a card to him (that was me) which was the same Bible verse his prayer partner in another country had told him earlier that day was God’s promise of support to him for an overseas missionary placement. So he felt sure God was leading him and based on the confirming Bible Scripture I gave him committed to an overseas missionary placement. I still look back and wonder what to make of it all.

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      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        Yeah, I too felt sorry for them. Wouldn’t it have been so much better if they suddenly knew the truth about our situations? If god was real and scolded us like a child wrote just wrote on the wall with markers that would have made things so much easier.

        In my quest to find the truth there were several times I was more than ready for god to tell me he was mad or even hated me. I really just wanted any conformation I was his creation. It never came.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Peter · November 12, 2015

        I know how you feel about wanting any sort of confirmation. I asked myself, ‘what confirmation could I ever receive that “God” does not exist?’

        I realised that if ‘God’ did not exist then there would be no dramatic, miraculous sign to point the way. Rather it could never be proved. The best I could hope for in confirmation was the steady accumulation of evidence that the world worked as one would expect if there was no guiding deity and the lack of any counter miraculous sign.

        My experience since I started this journey 7 months ago has been consistent with the no deity scenario. But I realise that belief is part of the emotions not part of our reason (our reason tends to try to rationalise it after the event) and I find that at times of emotion I am still drawn back to my religious conditioning even though my mind tells me it is all false. I get exasperated with myself at times at the length of time it takes to throw off the conditioning and baggage of religion.

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · November 12, 2015

        It is a journey that takes time. I still find things all the time where I realize I am looking through the old religious glasses.

        Like

      • Elizabeth. · November 12, 2015

        Ryan Bell’s metaphor of this liminal, in-between stage, when the old has passed away but the new has not yet come clearly into focus is so evocative…. how it’s like what’s going on in a chrysalis, when the caterpillar actually dissolves — is “caterpillar soup” — during the transformation process [minute 12:15 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhfy6cf5ItE ]

        My problem is that I seem never to get beyond this shape-shifting mode!!!!! ….oy Bell says it’s a creative time, so maybe that’s an encouragement!

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        There is no rush. It is a time to search and discover. I think those are definitely part of the transformation process. You’ll find your place and I will find mine. Lately, it seems like I have been set back in my plans. I guess that i part of the ebb and flow of things.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        I am genuinely sorry to hear that – as Burns once said, “The best laid plans of mice or men, often gang agly” – and as soon as I figure out what ‘agly‘ means, I’ll ready a response to that.
        (And yes, Elizabeth., I know what ‘agly’ means, it’s part of the persona I play!)

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        Thanks! I know every plan has set backs and things that change. We will see where things lead as they unfold.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        Yeah, well, I once thought I’d like to run for President, but that’s likely not gonna work out.
        And no, I hadn’t quite decided of which country.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        I would not take that job. Never wanted it.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        Me either – every President I’ve ever known, grayed on the job (except for Ike, who really had nothing to gray), and since I started graying at 35, I’m thinking the job holds nothing for me that I’ve not already done – except for that whole ruling the world thing, and I’ve never had a taste for that – Goldfinger, I’m not.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        “(And yes, Elizabeth., I know what ‘agly’ means, it’s part of the persona I play!)”

        You’re getting to know me a little too well, arch…. now THAT’S scary!!!!!!!

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        You’re getting to know me a little too well, arch…. now THAT’S scary!!!!!!!

        You’re just saying that because it’s true —
        It’s because I’m psychic (or is that psychotic, I always get those two mixed up).

        Liked by 2 people

      • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

        For me, it’s been so long that I’m thinking probably I’ll never settle anywhere…. some days that seems like a good exploratory way to live; other days, a regret. I’m so thankful for your blog, and Linda’s “Rational Doubt” ….being able to discuss freely!!!! very deep thanks

        I join arch in being sorry for the unexpectedly changing plans…. I know you will be making very good use of the time, and send you and yours the very best!!!

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        I know you will be making very good use of the time” – Yes, AD, like keeping ‘Duffy’s Tavern’ open here so we can all drop in for a cold one from time to time and get together with friends. (Yeah, I know – that’s kind of a selfish wish, but if you can’t get what you want, want what you get.)

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        Thanks!

        Liked by 1 person

  5. niceatheist · November 11, 2015

    It always amazes me just how different male leadership is spoken to versus lowly females within a congregation. Yeah, I’m pulling the gender card here. I’m in awe at how those men spoke to you. Most of my Christian life was spent with my family, at home, Church and in the ministry. And still, leadership and their flunky wives and grown daughters, made sure to put me in my place on a regular basis.

    You don’t see that kind of favor with women in Church. I got it once in a GREAT while, but only when I constantly knocked myself out to be obedient to god and leaders. Even then, such “words” were given with caution or warnings.

    Liked by 1 person

    • niceatheist · November 11, 2015

      Sorry, I’m not done, I accidentally posted this. Then again, I’m never done. Let me be blunt here. The fastest way for religion to dissolve is for the women in it to finally wake up. When women become aware of how gods and their anointed ones treat them and decide to do something about it by getting out of it, THEN religion will die.

      Liked by 5 people

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world.

        Like

      • niceatheist · November 11, 2015

        Arch, it is so true! Yes, religion is dominated by male leadership, but women have so much more power in religion than what we realize. Who’s dragging their husbands and kids to Church? Women! Who’s volunteering for Church work? Women! Who are the ones writing out checks for tithes, offerings and building funds? Women!

        Let’s look at just one strain of religion, the Catholic Church. What if the nuns finally woke up to their belittled positions within the Church? What if they began to reflect on upon how lowly they are treated compared to the priests? What if they began to pull away from being beaten down by an oppressive, man dominated organization and got out altogether?! If they did that other women within Catholicism might do the same. Then the protestant women would follow suit, etc, etc. Before you know it, more than just Churches, temples and mosques would close, denominations and religions would shut down for good!

        That’s why we all pay for the sin of Eve wanting more knowledge because knowledge truly is power. Man made gods are threatened by people who are truly aware of what is going on around them. However, a woman who is worldly and self aware is a force greater than any religion!

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        You make good points about the forms of
        American Christianity. I am not sure it is the case of “religions”, especially non-christian religions as practiced in other countries. Now, it may be just as true but it may not.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        What if the nuns finally woke up to their belittled positions within the Church?
        What indeed —

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 12, 2015

        Hi nice! The nuns are making progress — they were giving the Vatican heartburn over the all-male priesthood, birth control, sexuality, and the centrality of Jesus to the faith…. until Pope Francis ended the “investigations.” Have you caught “the Nuns on the Bus”? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In-glzIs5jI they are awesome!!
        http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/us/catholic-church-ends-takeover-of-leadership-conference-of-women-religious.html?_r=0

        Per AD’s comment — the women of Liberia did just that and ended the dictatorship of Charles Taylor and the horrendous child soldier abuses. Inspiring documentary http://www.pbs.org/wnet/women-war-and-peace/full-episodes/pray-the-devil-back-to-hell/ Takes everybody working together!!!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 12, 2015

        (oops! I should’ve said, “used just that tactic”)

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 12, 2015

        Who’s dragging their husbands and kids to Church? Women!” – I know it was my mom who always drug me, my dad only went twice that I can recall, ever, but it’s the motherly instinct of wanting to save their little children from the fiery depths of Hell that prompts this.

        Interestingly, Hell was never part of the Judaism until they were influenced by other cultures. One of the main tenets of Jewish religious thought, as evidenced by the story of Abraham and Lot, was to remain isolated from other cultures that might influence one, stay out of cities that might give one new ideas, marry within your belief system, keep Judaism pure. But after Egypt and Mesopotamia began battling across the Levant, that became impossible, and Judaism was influenced by many other cultures after that.

        Interestingly, the most common prayer closure, “Amen,” involves swearing by the Egyptian god, Amen (aka, Amon/Amun) that what you say is true.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 12, 2015

        Speaking of Lot (and at the risk of sounding like Cliff Klaven)…

        …Sodom and Gomorrah were located near the southern tip of the Dead Sea, and had two factors that made them unique among cities. The area was rich in bitumin, a tar-like, oil-based mineral that could best be described as oil on its way to becoming coal, and as such, it was highly flammable. Records indicate that Egyptians used to come that far north to mine it, as it was used as part of their embalming process. Additionally, the two hamlets (certainly not cities by any means) were located on a major faultline that runs all the way from the Olduvai Gorge in Africa, north.

        At some point in time – archaeologically long before the time ascribed to the legendary Abraham and nephew Lot – the area underwent a major earthquake, due to slippage of the faultline, hurling bitumin, ignited by friction, high into the atmosphere, where it rained down as fireballs, destroying the towns. Clearly, this natural disaster was incorporated into the biblical myths, to prove that it’s better to live in a cave and father children by your daughters, than to live in a city full of unfamiliar customs and belief systems – unless the girls are ugly, then it’s just plain weird.

        Like

      • Elizabeth. · November 12, 2015

        arch, you keep sending me back to the books & google!! I’d heard the reference to Amon, but til now hadn’t followed up on it… looks like standard dictionaries don’t include it (yet), and wiki notes the Hebrew & Egyptian letters are different. Intriguing to see that Sanskrit “Om” is a candidate too! that’s rather cool : ) Thank you for the continuing ed!

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 12, 2015

        Well, it helped to be there.

        I’ve got another one for you, but it’s a bit lengthy, and I already laid it out on another of AD’s posts – let me see if I can find it and give you a link, rather than repeat it here. The topic raises the question, who was the first god the Jews worshiped?

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 12, 2015

        Dammit, Elizabeth., I can’t find it now, but since you were the one who helped me learn what a crank Atwill was, you’ve clearly been following AD work from the beginning, maybe you remember it – it had to do with Amurru, the god of the Amurrites (Amorites) – does that ring any bells?

        Like

      • Elizabeth. · November 14, 2015

        ” – it had to do with Amurru, the god of the Amurrites (Amorites) – does that ring any bells?”

        here to claim my prize — https://adisillusionist.wordpress.com/2015/10/13/the-harm-of-religion-i-dont-hear-about/

        On the substance, will have to poke around some…. meanwhile, here’s an interesting argument that “El Shaddai” was a feminine name. I heard that derivation in seminary, too….
        https://scribalishess.wordpress.com/2014/05/23/el-shaddai-and-the-gender-of-god/ 2 b cont’d

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 14, 2015

        here to claim my prize —” – It’s in the mail!
        I won’t ask how you did that, clearly OCD people with periods at the end of their names work in mysterious ways (it’s a small group).

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 14, 2015

        The Kohler-Baumgartner lexicon (HALOT) suggests that the word could be based on the Akkadian shadu which means ‘mountain.’ Thus, El Shaddai means ‘The God of the mountain(s).’

        Yes, Elizabeth., in research for my theory, I had run across the allusion of “Shaddai” to breast, but discounted it because the most commonly accepted definition is the god of the mountain. In the far Northern US, in Wyoming and Canada, run a range of mountains, named by French explorers: “Le Gran Tetons” – the big breasts. Breasts have often been metaphors for mountains – I knew this girl once…but I digress.

        Further, Amurru and Yahweh were both credited with having a wife – Asherah – now I have a lesbian friend who has a wife, but I don’t believe that was the case in this instance. Amurru was said to also have a mistress, Belit-Sheri, ‘Lady of the Desert‘. This was because, at some point, just prior to the time ascribed to Abraham, the nomadic, Semitic Amurrites divided – some choosing the freedom of the nomadic life, while others chose to settle in the area of Mesopotamia around Aleppo, Syria (and from there, over time, they overran all of the valley), thus the desert reference.

        Doesn’t it seem like the epitome of absurdity to be arguing whether a non-existent entity had a penis?

        “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
        — Delos B. McKowan —

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 14, 2015

        Doesn’t it seem like the epitome of absurdity to be arguing whether a non-existent entity had a penis?

        sums up the theme of a lot of discussions

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 14, 2015

        How many hours were consumed during the Middle Ages by men arguing over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin?

        Like

      • adisillusionist · November 14, 2015

        no clue. never heard that before

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 14, 2015

        According to unimpeachable sources, it’s not how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, it’s how many can do it on the point of a needle–which, of course, makes more sense. Second, the earliest citation I can find is from a book by Ralph Cudworth in the 17th century, which is a suspiciously late in the day.

        Valuable insight on this question is provided by Isaac D’Israeli (1766-1848), the father of British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli. Isaac was an amateur scholar who published several books of historical and literary “curiosities,” which were quite popular in their day. D’Israeli lampooned the Scholastic philosophers of the late Middle Ages, notably Thomas Aquinas, who were famous for debating metaphysical fine points.

        Aquinas wrote several ponderous philosophical tomes, the most famous of which went by the awe-inspiring title Summa Theologica, “summary of theology.” It contained, among other things, several dozen propositions on the nature of angels, which Thomas attempted to work out by process of pure reason. The results were pretty tortured, and to the hipper-than-thou know-it-alls of the Enlightenment (i.e., D’Israeli’s day), they seemed a classic example of good brainpower put to nonsensical ends.

        For example, D’Israeli wrote, “Aquinas could gravely debate, Whether Christ was not an hermaphrodite [and] whether there are excrements in Paradise.” He might also have mentioned such Thomistic puzzlers as whether the hair and nails will grow following the Resurrection, and whether or not said Resurrection will take place at night.

        D’Israeli goes on to say, “The reader desirous of being merry with Aquinas’s angels may find them in Martinus Scriblerus, in Ch. VII who inquires if angels pass from one extreme to another without going through the middle? And if angels know things more clearly in a morning? How many angels can dance on the point of a very fine needle, without jostling one another?”

        You HAVE led a sheltered life, haven’t you?

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 15, 2015

        I definitely have

        Like

      • Peter · November 15, 2015

        When I studied Church History, the number of Angels that could fit on the head of a pin was used as the example of the excesses of the scholastic movement of which Thomas Aquinas was the exemplar par excellence.

        Still, ultimately the scholastic movement led to the formation of Universities and was thus the progenitor of higher education in the western tradition.

        For many years one could only only hold a position of influence at OXford and Cambridge universities if an ordained member of clergy. This is partly why so many of the leading British scientists in the 18th and 19th century were ordained clergy.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · November 15, 2015

        did not know that

        Like

      • Elizabeth. · November 15, 2015

        Another surprising comment from a relative: “God is male — culturally male.” …..Thus avoiding a crass
        materiality but able to
        hang on to a patriarchy : )

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 15, 2015

        God is male — culturally male.” – So is a gay woman I know, and if you don’t believe it, she’ll belt you. That line is becoming more and more blurred as our culture changes.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

        I suppose I should clarify, a good glowing aura that projected a sense of godliness to his other children. I suppose he could put a glowing warning aura around an atheist.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        If either gender left it would probably die out, but if women said they would not have sex with anyone who was religious it would disappear quickly.

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        If either gender gave it up it would die. Many religions mental beat down women more than men which oddly enough makes it more difficult for them to leave. (I think)

        Like

    • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

      It always amazes me just how different male leadership is spoken to versus lowly females within a congregation.” – Oh, come on! With the Abrahamic religions’ 3000-year old history of misogyny, beginning with the whole ‘Adam’s rib’ thing, how could you still be amazed?

      Like

    • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

      I understand what you are saying and agree that is how it works in general. I am not sure if I missed anything with your intent on this post, so I will clarify details, just in case.

      No women spoke to me after other than to say “Thanks” or we “We loved it”, etc.

      There were no women speakers that day.

      Like

  6. nowamfoundatlast · November 11, 2015

    so, religious mob ecstasy, bogus bs, just plain lies or people trying to curry favor with you? or all of the above?

    Like

  7. Swarn Gill · November 11, 2015

    After some reflection I think what perhaps makes me the saddest or most concerned is that this would be seen as an important compliment. I mean I get why in the context of religious mumbo jumbo, but when I hear an inspiring talk and was going to compliment the speaker, I would refer to specific sections that meant a lot to me, and maybe relate to how they had a personal impact or how they might help me make important changes in my life in the future. I mean to me that’s a way of also making my compliment personally meaningful to the person who gave the speech. I mean it would be like listening to a scientific talk and then going up to the speaker and going “Hey that was awesome. You are like the smartest person ever. I don’t know if they got a degree higher than a Ph.D., but you should get it, because like the stuff you said…so intelligent…like wooo…over my head brilliant stuff!”

    Liked by 2 people

    • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

      Yeah, I guess it would almost have to be something to do with the person’s self esteem. That was their way of being involved in your speaking to bolster themselves.

      Per your thoughts, it would be like them presenting you with that degree higher than Ph.D.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Swarn Gill · November 11, 2015

        Yeah! Either way turning the focus away from the actual content and to a more emotional experience is I guess the hallmark difference between people who are more belief-based over critical thinking. So perhaps it’s not that surprising, but I guess as someone who is trying to always grow and improve I prefer to get specific feedback, positive or negative. 🙂

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 11, 2015

        All The President’s Men” advocated, ‘follow the money‘ – in this instance, I’d say, follow the dopamine.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Swarn Gill · November 11, 2015

        Haha…indeed!

        Like

      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        Ole’ Dr. Phil. “What is your reward? What are you paying yourself?”

        Like

      • adisillusionist · November 11, 2015

        I totally agree.

        Like

  8. archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

    Violet asked this question on Zoe’s blog, and Zoe decided to make a post of it – any theists or former theists, or reformed theists, feel free to jump in with a response, which I will then take back to Zoe’s site:

    Do You Know The Love Of Jesus?
    November 13, 2015 ~ … Zoe ~

    Violet shared her concerns as a (former-Christian) mother when the preschool/school aged Christian-educated children playing in the park approach her son (diagnosed with autism) (educated in a secular school) with the following question:

    Question: Do you know the love of Jesus?

    I’d like to ask Christians what they’d like us (former Christians) to teach our children, grandchildren, etc., to say in response to their children when the little evangelists start preaching, proselytizing &/or sharing the gospel

    AD had a similar experience not too long ago, but it was adult-adult – what would you advise a child to say to a playground proselytizer, under the same circumstances?

    Liked by 1 person

    • adisillusionist · November 13, 2015

      I guess it would be to tell them – no, but I like you. Let’s play “whatever”.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Elizabeth. · November 13, 2015

      wow… that’s a challenge!! I haven’t had to think about it (but might eventually since have new grandson w/ Jewish-Christian parents)

      First thought is that maybe I’d get a picture of Jesus blessing the children and connect that figure with Mister Rogers (I hear that’s still popular) who loves everyone “just the way they are.” For a foundation, I’d want to help my kids be totally firm on the idea of unconditional love, in any tradition or non-tradition. Depending on how old they are, maybe a picture of the Dali Lama, too : )

      From there, I’ll have to keep figuring how to proceed! Great and important question…. thank you, and Zoe and Violet!!!!

      Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 13, 2015

        since have new grandson w/ Jewish-Christian parents” – Oy vey/holy crap!

        The boy is four and slightly autistic – I suggested he ask the other kid if he knows the love of Barney, and launch into the Barney song.

        Like

      • Elizabeth. · November 14, 2015

        : ) The Jewish/Christian parents see things more compatibly than I and my conservative christian friends and relatives. It’s going to be very interesting to see how they work things out!

        From what I hear of Barney, that sounds like a great idea! This is making me think that there may be a strong need and market for children’s books that can help them in the religious/secular pluralism they’ll be growing up in….

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 14, 2015

        This is making me think that there may be a strong need and market for children’s books that can help them in the religious/secular pluralism they’ll be growing up in….

        What a great idea, Elizabeth.! You don’t happen to write by any chance, do you? However it might be too hot a topic for a publisher to consider touching. The first thing a publisher would do, is consider the market, is it big enough? Then he/she would consider the repercussions – would there be a Christian backlash, and how would that hurt sales of their other books? But I agree, the need is definitely there and should not only touch on the major religions, and in addition, mention atheism, that way it wouldn’t be branded as a strictly atheist book.

        Or how about this – a series of small books, that in each one, the child is of one specific belief system, encountering others who believe differently, and in each book, the one belief is explained, from a child’s POV, as well as the alternate belief system, as well as a bit of background as to how the child came to believe as he/she does (Momma said, our priest said, the Imam said, etc.), and from there, the storyline glides to a resolution as to how these two factions can coexist. What do you think?

        Liked by 1 person

      • Elizabeth. · November 15, 2015

        Yes, I like the POV series!

        If the idea hasn’t already been done (googling interfaith children’s books seems to turn up mostly Jewish/Christian ones), then if the notion gets “out there” in social media I’m confident talented people will make them happen.

        If it’s done truly respectfully, then I can see people of many traditions appreciating a friendly view of our
        life together. Will help us so-called grownups too : )

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 15, 2015

        Will help us so-called grownups too : )” – I, too, keep looking ahead to what I might do when I grow up.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · November 14, 2015

        From what I hear of Barney…” – As Lois Lane said to Clark Kent, “You’re not from around here, are you?

        Liked by 1 person

  9. nowamfoundatlast · November 15, 2015

    i went to a catholic school and a catholic orphanage. I have some experience of nuns. my 2nd grade teacher used to pick us up out of our seats by our ears. long hair was an excellent way to stop a child. nuns are married to jeebus and they wore gold wedding bands and you could see them flash and glimmer as they beat you. once a child fainted at communion during mass, fell straight down and smacked her head against the marble kneeler. nuns, altar boys and priests all a twitter about the WAFER, not the blood on her head. perhaps that’s what christ meant about suffer the little children. she was 7 years old. how they used to suck up to the priests!!! yes father good morning father how are you father father father father in their papery whispery voices. how arrogant those priests were, they seldom answered.

    Like

    • archaeopteryx1 · November 15, 2015

      “Sir, could I please have some more?”
      — Dickens —

      Liked by 1 person

      • nowamfoundatlast · November 15, 2015

        kind of like that but my only power was not eating. used to drive em nuts because one would have to stay in the dining room until i ate or got the beat down. it was worth the beating

        Like

    • adisillusionist · November 15, 2015

      horrible

      Like

    • Elizabeth. · November 15, 2015

      Wow, nowamfound… I think the nuns-on-the-bus would be all about rescuing you from those you endured. I do hope you’ve found good sources of healing… that environment would be so tough at any age, but especially in early childhood. I hope “foundatlast” means some mending!!

      Liked by 2 people

  10. richardofoxford · November 15, 2015

    Reminds me strongly of so-called N-rays: http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200708/history.cfm

    Liked by 2 people

    • adisillusionist · November 15, 2015

      learned a couple things today

      Like

    • Elizabeth. · November 15, 2015

      That is a little too telling, richardofoxford…. thank you for an interesting episode!

      Like

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