The Harm of Religion I Don’t Hear About

I am still new to this side of the fence and realize that even if I come up with a thought on my own that I am sure others have been discussing it for some time. Men with much more education and understanding than myself have a vast understanding of the many facets of the faithless life I have yet to discover. So I am sure there are pages and pages about the things I will mention in this post. It is just I don’t think they are talked about as much because they may seem more subtile or don’t make as big a splash in the social media waters when they hit. At least that is my guess as to why I haven’t heard about such topics.

TIME

Religion takes up to much time. I know atheists mention they love Sundays off but I mean so much more than that. I don’t even mean the time it takes to go to church. I mean it takes almost all your time to really live the Christian walk the way I was taught. Church, Bible study for a couple hours a day, prayer, witnessing, worship through song (singing or just listening to religious music), and thinking of ways to do all of the above better.

If we just spent that time with our families or helping our communities the bond between humans could be so much stronger. The “I’m not in a religion but in a relationship” thing means you give up relationship building time with people to build a relationship with an imaginary concept. It takes a lot of time to learn and perpetuate brainwashing in your self.

CHARITABLE ACTIVITIES

The church really does help many people in many ways. So many Christians are very sincere in their efforts to change the world. But if we spent our time changing lives and not working on changing a fictitious eternity we could accomplish so much more! A large amount of time, planning, work hours, and resources go into the Christian (and other religion’s) messages. If we spent the same time, energy, and dollars just helping others we could do much more and much faster. I also think they would appreciate it it much more!

When people know you have an ulterior motive they see it. They see it even if they perceive it to be a good or noble one, and do not fully appreciate the effort like they could. When a person accepts charity but has to listen to a message to get it then don’t feel like they are special and you want to help them. They feel like they are just part of your project. I spoke with a foreign college student recently. I asked about him and his culture. I saw him a couple weeks later and we had lunch. He told me I was the only person in the 4 years he has been in America that asked him about his life that did not then want to try to convert him to Christianity. Also, the others quit talking to him when they could not convert him.

MAKES PEOPLE PASSIVE

People are less likely to give it their all when they pray about something. Why should I try really hard if God can give it to me or do it for me? Some people even  quit trying when they pray for something because they don’t want to interfere with God’s will, they might mess it up.  Why do anything? Really? You can’t have anything happen to you that god is not in control of the situation. So, only work on praying and reading scripture. God will handle everything else.

Well, if people don’t do it it doesn’t get done.

SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT

I see/saw this with Christians and especially church staff members. There is a sense of entitlement because “I am doing God’s will”. People should give me things, churches should pay me more, church members should let me take advantage of their business because I am ministry. A good example is when a preacher eats for free at member’s restaurants. God’s will is more important than any other job, so I am more important, therefore people should give me stuff and I should get special treatment.

It brings everyone down if someone is sucking the resources from the group. I know money is given in sincerity, but I can’t help but wonder what more could be done if the money spent on religion was spent elsewhere. I know many people have speculated that before, but how much more better would the world be if the charismatic, success driven church staff members spent their lives running positive community or global businesses?

I think overall there are a lot of people doing things that help the world in a good way, but without the church those things would help the world in a great way.

201 comments

  1. Clay · October 13, 2015

    All very good/valid points!
    The sense of entitlement that I routinely saw with Christians would really get to me at times. It definitely bothered me. I did a very short post once about it (http://lifeafter40.net/2014/06/03/condemnation-vs-entitlement/) but the best part was probably this funny e-card graphic: https://lifeafter40dotnet1.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/sense-of-entitlement.png

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Quixie · October 13, 2015

    These are excellent points. Even if these things have been spoken/written about ad nauseaum (and I don’t think they have) they’d still be excellent points.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

    But if we spent our time changing lives and not working on changing a fictitious eternity we could accomplish so much more!

    “Two hands working can do more than a thousand, clasped in prayer.”
    — Madalyn Murray O’Hair —

    Liked by 5 people

    • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

      See, smarter people than me…

      Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        See, smarter people than me…

        Hardly! She just got to where you are first. Interesting that no one seems overly concerned with finding her murderer.

        Liked by 3 people

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        Her murder was eventually found and arrested, and years later, led authorities to their dismembered bodies, but this was NOT to the credit of the local police, but rather to Federal agents:

        Despite pleas from O’Hair’s son, William J. Murray, several briefings from federal agents, and solid leads developed by members of the press, the Austin Police Department (APD) sat on the sidelines of the O’Hair investigation…. Meanwhile, investigators from the Internal Revenue Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the Dallas County Sheriff’s Office are working together on the case … a federal agent was asked to discuss APD’s actions in the O’Hair case. His only response was to roll his eyes in amazement.

        Liked by 2 people

    • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

      I never read anything she wrote or studied anything about her as I was told she was one of the most evil people ever to walk the face or the United States.

      Liked by 1 person

      • nowamfoundatlast · October 13, 2015

        the MOST evil? surely not THE most evil? that teaching really gives a break to oh say compared to john wayne gacy? hitler? pol pot? dick cheney? she was the MOST evil? that’s some hyperbole right there!!!!

        Liked by 2 people

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        dick cheney?” – Love it! You and me, Kid!

        Like

      • Violet · October 13, 2015

        I was also taught she was *very high* in the evil dept…at least Hitler had a little bit of christian in him, so that made him less evil.

        I think you might be underestimating how the devout view atheists…in my ex-church (catholic) atheists were denounced as the embodiment of the devil. It was said there are NO redeeming qualities in an unbeliever, and they will lead you to (spiritual) death if you so much as look their way.

        You can see catholics aren’t much for winning over the hearts and minds of unbelievers…better to condemn atheists than to risk contaminating your own soul.

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

        That is the way it was put to me. Being anti god was way worse than killing people. Those people could be forgiven, but that deep rooted hatred for god was the sin worthy of eternal death and not forgivable.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Violet · October 13, 2015

        Sounds like we were taught from the same manual. I rarely meet someone else who was taught the same super-hard-core stuff that I was taught, but you might be one who was.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

        I imagine so.

        Like

      • Violet · October 13, 2015

        Yeah…that’s the power of indoctrination. When you’re discouraged or even forbidden from reading outside material that might be conflict with the church, that’s the sign of a cult. As a new deconvert you might feel opposed to calling the church a cult at this point, but it’s an opinion I’ve come to hold (my opinions are often not popular).

        Liked by 2 people

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        Hey, Pretty Lady – I told someone about you today, then it occurred to me that maybe it wasn’t the best idea to close down your blog. Granted, due to your situation, you couldn’t continue adding to it, but if you had simply left it open, so that others could access it – maybe even leave a brief explanation as to why you were no longer blogging – at least others could benefit from reading your story and sharing your experiences. What do you think? Could you open it back up?

        Like

      • Violet · October 13, 2015

        I regret to say I deleted the entire damn thing and did not save a copy (oh the stupidity). My blog was discovered by my family and I felt totally exposed, criticized, stifled, and censored. This pissed me off in a serious way and I felt I had to get it off the internet *immediately*. My blog was extremely personal and I wanted no trace left for people to whip me with.

        In hindsight I should have gone private. All my work is now dust, but as adisillusionist says, smarter people than I have written masterfully about the same topics.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015


        SAY it isn’t so! “Masterfully? Maybe, but you poured your poor baby heart out on that blog, and no “masterful” author can hope to compete with pure, raw honesty!

        Besides, I said some cool things on there, and now they’re gone forever —

        Check WordPress, maybe they archived a copy. I know that my original website provider was able to compress and email to me all 50 entries.

        Like

      • Violet · October 13, 2015

        Huh, good idea…I have no idea how to check with WP, but I’ll figure it out.

        Thank you for the praise of my blog…I most certainly did pour my heart and soul into it. You said some seriously funny shit on it too. One thing I don’t miss? godsmanforever. Ugh, kill me now.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        Ugh, kill me now.” – Never gonna happen, you’re under my wing, remember?

        but I’ll figure it out.” – Of course you will, you’ve already proven that you have super powers! (Hint: try ‘Contact Us’)

        Like

      • Violet · October 13, 2015

        Well where the hell is Contact Us at, Mr. I-don’t-own-a-WP-blog?

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Well where the hell is Contact Us at, Mr. I-don’t-own-a-WP-blog?”

        How should I know, Mz “I’ll-figure-it-out”?

        Liked by 1 person

      • carmen · October 13, 2015

        Jesus, Violet! You know that line, “Speak of the devil and he’s sure to appear”. . . leave GMF out of this productive (so far) conversation! 🙂

        To be serious though, KIA, I have read your kind of comment before on blogs like this and it makes me cringe. You shouldn’t be so hard on yourself, as I’m betting you were doing good things with your time and talents; things that probably benefited many. Arch is right, your Mum probably was well aware of your good qualities. I can sense them and I’ve only read a few comments on a blog! 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        Arch is right” – I’m sorry, would you repeat that –?
        (I just like to hear it!)

        Like

      • Violet · October 13, 2015

        Ugh, Sorry! I should have purged him from my mind long ago, but he was just so damn aggravating.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        Trust me ladies, he’s getting a pounding on another site, by several different people!

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015
      • carmen · October 14, 2015

        Arch, I’m a damned heathen and I’M praying he doesn’t show up over here. . .

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Special deal, Carmen, this week only – you pray and I’ll prey – let’s compare notes at the end of the week.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        Who? (I kinda got lost and have not read every post between you because it seemed more like a conversation between you.)

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        (I kinda got lost and have not read every post between you because it seemed more like a conversation between you.)

        Yeah, but that’s where the good stuff happens!

        The person in question is GMF, or “God’s Man Forever“. He is of the belief that the “saved” are chosen (no others need apply), and absolutely refuses to read anything to the contrary.

        “If a man, holding a belief which he was taught in childhood, or persuaded of afterward, keeps down and pushes away any doubts which arise about it in his mind, purposely avoids the reading of books and the company of men that call in question or discuss it…the life of that man is one long sin against mankind.”
        — William Kingdon Clifford —

        His stock in trade is to invite you to his blog to read his “About” page, about his miraculous conversion at 52, after which, of course, he fully expects the reader to fall on his face in contrition and accept Yahweh, the obscure desert god of the Midianites.

        Does anyone but me know that this is “National No-Bra Day”? – probably not.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I love the W.K. Clifford quote. I may do an entry sometime on my thoughts on that. I have considered it recently.

        GMF sounds life many I know. It seems like it would be like talking to a brick wall.

        I knew about national No-Bra Day. If my wife will observe it the rest of the day I will try to convince her it is no shirt day too.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        It seems like it would be like talking to a brick wall.” – Not so, I’ve had much more interesting conversations with brick walls. Good luck with the wife – I can envision what she’ll say:

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        That will not be happening. She is free to speak as she wishes but not here.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        It might help if you explained it was omni-sexual, and took your shirt off first – just a thought —

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        done!

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I think tomorrow should be no pants day.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        That’s something I do on a regular basis, I didn’t know there was a special day for it.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        What a shame I didn’t know it was No Bra Day. I could have gone out and scared the neighbors!

        GMF is worse than others I’ve seen…really, his particular brand of proselytizing makes a person want to gouge their eyes out with a spoon. He leads with love but his overall message is one of hate, and you can ask him to stay away from you a million times, and he’ll just stick to you tighter. It’s misery-making for a deconvert. Arch and Ark handle him well, but they don’t have the emotional baggage a deconvert has to wade through.

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I know I will face debating and arguing about my position. In some ways I wish Christians would not find about this blog so I can wait a while before facing that. In other ways I wish they would and I could practice before going public.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        There are a few theists out there who debate well (but I have a friend who can bury all of the ones I’ve so far seen), but many will not debate you, they will only fling scripture at anything you have to say, and will refuse to read anything you suggest to them, that in any way counters their beliefs, so that you get a lot of

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        In other ways I wish they would and I could practice before going public.” – Not a problem, just find yourself a fence post and spend a couple of days talking to it, you’ll be ready.

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I would like to find a relatively smart fence post then

        Like

      • carmen · October 14, 2015

        “I would like to find a relatively smart fence post then” – Arch has been called worse. . . 🙂

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        lol

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I am married…So have I.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Yes, by Carmen!

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        You’d think, wouldn’t you? Trust me, the intellectual level between an intelligent fence post and one delivered by short yellow bus, is minimal.

        I have no idea how familiar you are with blog terms, but I suggest you find a Christian si.te and “LURK” for a time – i.e., read without commenting. You’ll get a feel that way for how things go, who is the alpha dog, etc

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I may do that in time. I am spending every spare minute reading watching suggested material.

        Like

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        My tactic was to go on high controversy christian/atheist blogs and try to get a feel for debating. It’s a hard thing to learn if you’re not used to using your brain in a logical way on the topic of religion. I jumped in and left some comments…some of my debates were reasonably successful, but most of the time I fell flat on my face. The real problems arose when christians on those religious blogs found my personal blog and started in with me. At least by that time I had many online atheist friends who would back me up, and I learned tons from their conversations, but I won’t deny the christian harassment was seriously stressful.

        If I were to do it again, I would either make my blog private or ban proselytizers/troublemakers. You might be further along (mentally speaking) in your deconversion than I was when I was blogging, but the social stress is going to crank up for you soon. Be careful with how much you take on at once.

        Maybe it would be best to just read the high conflict blogs to get a feel for it without commenting (and giving them your blog site). This was one of my favorite atheist blogs that would get some hot christian commentary:

        https://violetwisp.wordpress.com/

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I may do just that.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        I just love it when theists fight – “My religion is better than your religion!”

        Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        It is incredible some the teachers and mentors I’ve had were sure that their version was the only right version.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        I was only five, when looking through “National Geographics,” I saw other people in other countries, celebrating their own religions, and I asked my Mom, how did we know that ours was the “right” religion. “It just is, that’s all –” was never enough of an explanation for me.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I never got an answer like that. I always received an intelligent, thought out answer . It was a wrong answer but well thought out.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        I’m sure that my mom likely didn’t believe that a 5-year old was capable of an intelligent, thought out answer.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        The link showed up for me. GMF gets a pounding everywhere he goes and it never, ever dissuades him. He will.not.stop. He thinks this is his finest quality, bestowed upon him by god. I think it’s annoying as hell.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Ah, but these are theists he’s arguing against! Jews denying the NT!

        Like

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        Yeah, it was an interesting conversation.

        Really, there’s no one on earth GMF doesn’t argue with, in the name of god’s love.

        Just to let you know, I checked with WP and they don’t archive deleted blogs. So it’s dust to dust and ashes to ashes.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        If you had given me ANY warning, SnotBox, I would have copied and archived them for you!

        Like

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        well heck, you should have said so before I deleted. 😉

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Like I KNEW you were going to delete? I wake up one morning, get up off the floor, crawl to the laptop, and find everything gone – THAT’s the kind of warning I got!

        Like

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        Cry me a river! My family found my blog…I had to delete in a hurry or get verbally beat with a baseball bat for the next 1000 years. So unless you were going to get up off the floor, drive to MN, and take the heat for me, you can suck it up birdman! 😉

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Oh. Well OK then.

        Like

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        Holy mother of god…I just checked out that link and saw GMF is STILL talking about Peter and I! I’m nauseous.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        It’s good to be remembered —

        Like

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        Not always.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        You said some seriously funny shit on it too.” – Come to think of it, I DID, didn’t I? And most of that time, I was semi-sober —

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

        I have recently called the church “The world’s biggest cult”. Not opposed to that term at all.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Violet · October 13, 2015

        Oh my, then I am your fan! Be aware you might not have many other fans (including some atheists) as this is considered to be a radical stance. Likening the church to a cult is considered a bit…well, *inflammatory*.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

        I may not use it that much, but I don’t see the difference other than the size.

        Like

      • ratamacue0 · October 13, 2015

        It is a cult of (a single) human sacrifice.

        (Not my original thought; forget where I heard it.)

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        Hey, ratamacue – glad you could join us! How have you been?

        Like

      • ratamacue0 · October 14, 2015

        Thanks.

        Oh, I’m OK. I’m around… Sometimes lurking, I guess. Don’t always have something to say, or time to say it…

        You?

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Oh, you know me – I tend to say something whether I have anything to say or not.

        Liked by 1 person

      • ratamacue0 · October 14, 2015

        Haha

        Liked by 1 person

      • kelpie98 · October 14, 2015

        Speaking of brick walls, a gentleman was visiting Jerusalem and every day looked out of his window to see the same man praying at the wailing wall. One day they met on the street. The conversation went like this

        What do you pray for so diligently day after day?
        For peace to come to the world.
        Nothing much seem to be happening.
        Tell me about it! It’s like talking to an f’ing brick wall.

        ( with thanks to be poster at Why Evolution is True who i stole it from.)

        Liked by 4 people

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        LOVE it, Kelpie! If you’re gonna steal, steal from the best, I always say.

        Like

  4. archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

    Liked by 1 person

    • Brad D · October 13, 2015

      Oh, there’s far bigger change possible than that. If churches paid taxes, the revenue could end WORLD hunger, not just US food stamps. And there would still be enough left over to end homelessness in the US, not just once, but twice. Nice showing of the numbers here: http://reverbpress.com/religion/churches-end-homelessness-hunger-one-year/

      Now, it’s all a matter of choice as to what we spend our money on. If people choose to continue to pay to make churches tax-exempt, that’s up to them. My problem with the situation is that churches claim to be benevolent and charitable entities working to resolve these problems. So given that they clearly have the resources available to them, why haven’t they fixed these problems yet?

      Liked by 2 people

      • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

        Very true! I didn’t include it because I have heard other discuss that several times, but I agree!

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        They open just enough soup kitchens to make a good show. While searching for my children (long story), I spent some time in a religious-based homeless shelter while I accumulated money for legal fees, and was required to sit through an hour-long sermon every evening before we could eat.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        bribe, bait and switch

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        ¡Exactamente que si!

        Liked by 1 person

  5. carmen · October 13, 2015

    . . . not to mention the riches of the Vatican. . ick. . .

    Liked by 3 people

  6. nowamfoundatlast · October 13, 2015

    good, valid points. but may i just say that yours now is not a “faithless” life. i would submit that you have faith in the inherent goodness of people. you have faith that the sun will come up in the east, and that life will continue, you just no longer believe in a myth, a fable and you see how very destructive it can be. you don’t need 10 demands to tell you not to lie, to steal and all the rest. you do not need a archaic book to tell you to help others. if that is the case, you lack empathy and compassion not morals or a belief in a capricious angry demanding fearful god.

    Liked by 1 person

    • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

      Interestingly, I had a young theist lady attempt to convince me that we humans are the special creation of god, as we are the only ones, of all the animals, who are capable of empathy. I offered these, without a word of argument, and she never responded again —

      This child fell into the gorilla enclosure at a zoo:

      Don’t tell me that’s not empathy.

      Liked by 5 people

      • Peter · October 14, 2015

        Arch, there was a study of monkey’s where to get food they had to pull a lever. The next stage of the experiment was to cause another monkey to suffer pain when the lever was pulled, but this remained the only way for the monkey’s to get food. This new dynamic dramatically changed the response of the monkey’s seeking food, they delayed pulling the lever, one even delayed for over a week.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Yes, Peter, I’ve read that.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Like

    • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

      I am not disagreeing with you here. I am going to expand on feedback from another thread here and try to help myself understand things better.

      I have been advised to start to get away from religious vernacular. I should not use terms that will cause people to believe I am hanging on to my religion.

      Faith seems to be associated with belief in something or someone without evidence to support it.

      I agree I have faith in my fellow man and mankind as a whole. I do believe people are basically good, at least most people are good. BUT I believe so because there is evidence to support it. So do I have faith in man or do I just have confidence in man? Why or why not use the term faith? or maybe when to use “Faith” or not use it?

      Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

        Liked by 1 person

      • Violet · October 14, 2015

        I have said before I have “faith” in humankind, but now that you mention it, this is a very religious word. I think “confidence in man” might be better. I’m still scrubbing religious language from my vocabulary…it keeps cropping up everywhere and it’s been the hardest thing for me to kick.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I will have to get a feel for that whole thing too.

        Like

    • kelpie98 · October 14, 2015

      Believe / accept. Faith / confidence.

      In some contexts the words are interchangeable, but I tend to say “I accept the evidence for evolution” rather than “I believe evolution is true.” To me, those statements are the same because I only believe evoluton is true because of evidence. But the average theist doesn’t grasp the difference.

      To be religious, you have to be willing to accept things without evidence. And the more people who claim to believe what you believe, the more real it feels.

      This why you get christians claiming Darwin converted to christianity on his death bed as if that makes a difference. Theists don’t realize thst if Darwin recanted every word, if he had sold everything and became a nun, if he had never lived, evolution would be just as accurate and supported by just as much evidence.

      Liked by 3 people

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I think I tend to agree that in some contexts various religious words mean the same thing. Sometimes there is a difference.

        I guess I also need to get a good understanding of how others perceive them which can be just as important when trying to communicate.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Liked by 1 person

  7. KIA · October 13, 2015

    I have to agree with the major heading of Time. the greater part of Three Decades a total and complete loss.
    how much Time and Opportunity to do other things with my life, how much wasted effort and energy. how many years pissed away, how many family members not only put on back burners but also rudely ignored and even abused. relationships that should have been first, now lost with no earthly way to restore what religion told me to Hate in comparison to my love for God, Christ, the Church Family and the Lost Souls… My Own Family was WAY down the list because of this FRAUD of an Life Sucking activity. and my wife wonders why I’m often angry these days.
    -KIA

    Liked by 3 people

    • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

      I agree. It is so sad.

      Like

    • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

      As the Lone Ranger said to Silver, “Easy there, Big Fellow –!” All fun aside, I’m sorry you’re so angry, just don’t let it overtake you.

      Liked by 1 person

      • KIA · October 13, 2015

        KIA doesn’t just stand for Know It All. It’s also for Killed In Action, like my faith. -KIA

        Liked by 3 people

    • Violet · October 13, 2015

      I totally understand this kind of anger…I often feel the exact same way (I’m about a year out from deconversion). While we can’t dwell in that headspace forever, I think acknowledging and admitting this rightfully placed anger is an important step to healing. Yes, you and your loved ones were f’ing ROBBED, and I have always refused to tone down that vernacular. Use that anger to propel you forward in productive ways in your life!

      Liked by 3 people

      • KIA · October 13, 2015

        you know what day I chose to leave LAX for my short term mission to South Korea for the ‘Gospel’?
        believe it or not… it was mother’s day. and I didn’t even know till right before getting on the plane. didn’t even call. just one of many such stories I could tell. -KIA

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

        I think that is the type of story goes to show that we were brainwashed. We ignored things, events, people, etc that we loved and should have given our attention.

        Like

  8. KIA · October 13, 2015

    mom’s been gone 2yrs now and I still can’t get that out of my head

    Like

    • adisillusionist · October 13, 2015

      So sorry! You must realize it wasn’t your fault as you were doing what you were taught.

      Liked by 1 person

    • archaeopteryx1 · October 13, 2015

      I was lucky, I called my mother from North Hollywood three days before she died, and told her I loved her – no special reason. I’m not trying to make you feel badly – if she were alive, I’m sure she wouldn’t blame you, that’s just how mothers are.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Violet · October 13, 2015

      If your mom was religious, I bet she was incredibly proud of you for doing god’s work. God’s work was always more important than family, and we were all taught this in the bible. Jesus ditched his mom and went to the temple…she ran in around in a panic looking for him, and when she found him he said something snotty like, “women, I’m doing god’s work.”

      Liked by 2 people

  9. ratamacue0 · October 14, 2015

    .

    Like

  10. archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

    Thanks, Charles, for the “Like” – I haven’t seen you since Mak’s site, how have you been?

    Like

  11. archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

    I tried inviting Colorstorm and his cult over here, but this was his response:

    (EDIT: I have no interest in promoting the mindless chatter of your friend(s) at my expense; I looked at the link, and indeed it is the correct call to dismiss it from this site.)

    OUCH!

    Like

  12. N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ · October 14, 2015

    Superb post. Trying to catch up on my reader. It’s after midnight — will comment further tomorrow.

    Liked by 1 person

    • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

      Victoria (AKA NeuroNotes) has reams of data relating to the psychological and neurological aspects of religiosity – you should listen to this lady.

      Liked by 2 people

      • N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ · October 14, 2015

        Arch, thank you. I am so appreciative of Adisillusionist’s honest and direct posts, and I think they offer therapeutic salve to many of us who were sincerely devout believers.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        Thanks. It feels weird to be open, honest, and direct but still be in hiding. I struggle with it. I will still try to be honest about my thoughts and beliefs.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        I think all of us understand the delicacy of your situation.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        …you should listen to this lady.” – I realized too late that I should have added “…except when she says bad things about me —

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        So…I shouldn’t listen to her..

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Nah, go ahead – she’s crazy about me, she just hides it well.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        It was a joke that didn’t play well in writing.

        Sarcasm

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

        As was my reply —

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 15, 2015

        I thought it might but was assuming any miscommunication was mine

        Like

  13. Shane Fletcher · October 14, 2015

    Sir, it doesn’t matter if these revelations are new to the world. They are new to you. And new things are precious. Make the most of them.

    They will also be new to some others that read about them here first. So appreciate that fact.

    Shane

    P.S. Nearly 100 comments in 12 hours? There is obviously a fun group of people here.

    Liked by 3 people

    • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

      Yeah, It can almost be a full time job posting, reading posts, and looking at every suggested reference or other blogs.

      Like

  14. archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

    Liked by 1 person

    • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

      Liked that video

      Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        I wasn’t entirely sure how you’d feel about the language – DarkMatter 2525 can get a little raw, but I thought his points were well made – “What if there’s something you don’t KNOW you don’t know –?

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I have heard the idea that by the creator being necessary it makes that creator even more necessary to have a creator, but it really makes it pop when you see it illustrated that he dies and finds the same predicament humanity would face upon death. Pretty cool.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        As far as language, or anything else for that matter, I don’t think I could be offended any longer. I may not agree with someone’s actions or thoughts but I really don’t think I could be “offended”. Just putting that out there.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Well, I’m a guest here and I don’t want to be presumptuous.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        I am loving Dark Matter 2525. I do think he gives fire power to the Christian group who would claim Atheists are angry, hate god, and want to live in their own sin.

        I can see how his following must be a completely non-religious crowd.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        I have a theory I’d like to bounce off of you – it’s based entirely on circumstantial evidence, but in many cases, that’s a lot more than the Bible provides.

        William G. Dever, American archaeologist in the Levant for 30 years, wrote in his book, “What Did the Bible Writers Know and When Did They Know it?” that there is no evidence that Abraham, Isaac or Jacob ever existed. Well, that’s not unreasonable, as they were nomadic herdsmen and likely wouldn’t have left any trace of their existence. Further, it’s a fact that often an entire tribe of people will be personified by early leader – this is evident by the fact that Jews of the Levant to this day consider themselves Israelis, despite Jacob/Israel being long gone these 4000 years, if he ever existed.

        But whether Abraham was an actual person, or merely a personification of a tribe of people, Genesis tells us he came from “Ur of the Chaldees.” This in itself tells us that that particular portion of Genesis had an author no more ancient than the 700’s BCE, because that’s when the Chaldeans moved into that portion of the Mesopotamian valley that included the actual, historical city of Ur – which, by the way, is from the Sumarian language, and merely means, “City.”

        Gen tells us that Abe next packed up his entire family and headed for Haran, some 700 miles away, on the Turkish/Syrian border. It is a little-known fact (that sounded a little too much like “Cliff Klaven”!), that there is a tiny hamlet, still in existence after all these millennia, also on the Turkish/Syrian border, called “Ur-fa.” Interestingly, the residents of that little burg, to this day, celebrate it as being, “the birthplace of Abraham.” How much more likely, that he moved his family 20 miles away, than 700?

        The Turko/Syrian border is particularly significant in light of the time that Abe allegedly lived (and I’ve consulted experts, and gotten dates ranging from 1750 BCE to 2350 BCE). The first known peoples to settle the Mesopotamian valley were the Sumerians, a short, relatively hairless people, believed to have come from the east, possibly of oriental descent. They operated a very successful theocracy there for over four thousand years.

        Then a group of Semitic nomads, the Akkadians, apparently tired of their migratory existence, infiltrated the northern, less desirable portion of the valley, and as they were few in number and seemingly caused no trouble, they were tolerated, if not actually ignored by the Sumerians. But in time, they grew in numbers and strength, and over time, in a series of wars against Sumerian city-states, conquered and ruled over the entire valley. Even their pantheon of gods were merged with those of the conquered Sumerians, and Sumerian became a language used only in Sumerian religious ceremonies, much as is actual Egyptian (which has been replaced by Arabic) reserved only for Copitc churches in Egypt, and Latin in Catholic church services.

        Their greatest ruler, Sargon I, had vision, and with his armies, opened a trade route from Mesopotamia to the Mediterranean, and all the way down the Levant, nearly to Egypt, leaving behind peace-keeping forces to keep the area safe for commerce.

        Apparently the Akkadians were no great students of history, not even their own, for after about 500 years, another group of Semitic nomads, the Amurrites, did exactly the same thing – they settled in the north, making their capital at Aleppo, Syria, grew in numbers and strength, and ultimately took over the entire Mesopotamian valley, themselves ruling for about 500 years. They differed from the Akkadians and Sumerians before them, in that they had no pantheon of gods, but worshiped a single god, Amurru, from which their name was taken.

        Here’s where I’m going with this – the time span, at least the range of it – coincides with the rise to power of the Amurrite kings, who originally established their Mesopotamian toehold in Syria. If Abe et al came from Ur-fa, rather than Ur, and made the move only 20 miles up the road to Haran, there’s an excellent possibility that they were Syrian Amurrites, and thus worshipers of the one god, Amurru. To that, we must add the fact that everywhere in Genesis that Abe’s nephew, Laban, is mentioned, it is always as “Laban the Syrian.” Well, if your nephew is Syrian, what would that make you? One more kicker – Amurru had another name, and a wife – the name was “El Shaddai,” and his wife was “Asherah.”

        Exodus 6:3 has the Bible’s god chatting with Moses likely over tea, and tells him: “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of El Shaddai, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.

        Now over the years, a couple of things have happened. The King James Bible was written, and the term, “El Shaddai,” was altered to read, “…by the name of God Almighty….” – BUT, the original, “El Shaddai,” remains unchanged in the original Hebrew of the Torah. And the second thing of course was the discovery that JEHOVAH was a mistranslation, that the name was actually Yahweh. As for Asherah, we know that King Josiah did his best to rid the land of those nasty fertility symbols, the Asherah poles. Also, two pieces of pottery have been uncovered in the Ugarit digs, each inscribed in proto-Hebrew, “To Yahweh and his Asherah

        Now when Moses married into the family (or when a tribe of Jews merged temporarily with a tribe of Midianites) of Jethro/Reuel, a Kennite/Midianite High Priest of an obscure desert storm god, YHWH, much like the earlier Akkadians merged their gods with those of the Sumerians, so the Jews merged their own god, Amurru, with that of the Midianites, Yahweh.

        That’s my theory – a bit long-winded, but you can’t just throw something like that out there without any background support.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        Sounds very interesting. Plausible. Can you send me to where I can find verification for But whether Abraham was an actual person, or merely a personification of a tribe of people, Genesis tells us he came from “Ur of the Chaldees.” This in itself tells us that that particular portion of Genesis had an author no more ancient than the 700’s BCE, because that’s when the Chaldeans moved into that portion of the Mesopotamian valley that included the actual, historical city of Ur – which, by the way, is from the Sumarian language, and merely means, “City.”

        I find that fact important. I may then also ask for verification on other aspects of your theory.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        “Can you send me to where I can find verification for But whether Abraham was an actual person, or merely a personification of a tribe of people, Genesis tells us he came from ‘Ur of the Chaldees.’ This in itself tells us that that particular portion of Genesis had an author no more ancient than the 700’s BCE, because that’s when the Chaldeans moved into that portion of the Mesopotamian valley that included the actual, historical city of Ur – which, by the way, is from the Sumarian language, and merely means, ‘City.'”

        I’m not clear here exactly what you mean. Please reread it, see what I mean (especially the first sentence), revise it and present it again. I’ll be glad to share anything I have, but I need to be clear on what you want.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

        Sorry, I just copy and pasted the whole paragraph you wrote. That kind of chopped it up and became unclear. I was in a hurry on the way out the door.

        Basically I would like to find where I can verify the time line that Abraham could not have come Ur of Chaldees earlier than 700’s BCE. Is the main thing.

        Sorry I was unclear.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        The New American Bible” – Footnotes on page 12, re, Gen 12:

        “Ur of the Chaldeans: Ur was an extremely ancient city of the Sumerians (later of the Babylonians) in Southern Mesopotamia. The Greek text has ‘the land of the Chaldeans.’ In either case, the term ‘Chaldeans’ is an anachronism, because the Chaldeans were not known to history until approximately a thousand years after Abraham’s time.”

        Wikipedia: “Chaldea (‘the Chaldees’), Hellenistic designation for a part of southeast Babylonia between the 9th and 6th centuries BC
        The Jewish Virtual Library:
        Ancient Jewish History:
        The Chaldeans
        (612 – 539 BCE)
        I could go on —

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 14, 2015

        Basically I would like to find where I can verify the time line that Abraham could not have come Ur of Chaldees earlier than 700’s BCE.

        Please note that I didn’t say that – I said the story couldn’t have been written earlier than the 700’s BCE, due to the inclusion of the Chaldeans into the storyline – note the distinction.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 15, 2015

        Ah, yes, I misunderstood. My mistake.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 15, 2015

        I shall assume humor when possible in the future

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

        I’m rarely more than semi-serious at any given point in time – keeps me young.

        Liked by 1 person

  15. N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ · October 14, 2015

    “Men with much more education and understanding than myself have a vast understanding of the many facets of the faithless life I have yet to discover.”</cite?

    I wasn't quite sure how to take this — why you used the term "men" rather than people or men and women.
    Getting to the other parts of you post, I don't care if what you wrote is repeated over and over, because every bit of it is spot on and needs to be repeated over and over. Christianity has done significant harm to the human psyche and how we view humanity. Garbage in, garbage out. When people read or hear over and over, week after week, month after month, year after year, that everyone is a sinner, whose hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked, it impacts neural circuitry and changes areas of the brain associated with fear and disgust of the Other. People will project onto others how they feel about themselves.

    I will also mention that it really sucked being a Christian woman, and a married woman is usually always aware that her husband has another lover whom he gives his best love to. Yes, there's always a threesome in the marriage bed. I remember, as though it were yesterday, being told in women's groups to not "bring out your husbands base passions", lest he be distracted from doing "God's will". Translation: always be there for him when he needs a release, but no real love making and passion, for God is a jealous god.

    I won't got into depth about the loneliness and isolation I felt when I was a young widow (before I remarried), but I will say that the Bible made damn sure to stereotype us (1 Timothy 5) — claiming that we had nothing better to do than to be "busybodies" and looking to temp married men. Oh, and by no means do you help the young widows, even when they have children. Only women who are over sixty. That's some kind of f*cked-up. In all the years that I was a Christian, never once did another Christian offer to help in any way, not even to babysit, yet I was at church, very active, every time the church doors were opened. I was also expected to tithe.

    You know what? I blame myself for being so gullible and putting up with this bullshit for so long. But I put up with this because I sincerely loved God and believed the Bible was the word of God. I suppressed my disappointments and unhappiness as a believer. Don't get me wrong, I met some really kind people when I was a Christian, and did have some good times, but I was always aware of where my place was in the hierarchy, and that I was the seed of Eve, the cause of the fall of man. I think it will take several more generations to undo the damage that the Abrahamic faiths have done to relationships between men and women, and the impact that has had on children.

    Liked by 4 people

  16. adisillusionist · October 14, 2015

    I totally got it wrong when I wrote “men”. I didn’t literally mean members of the male gender. I meant men as in mankind. But there really is no excuse for being unclear and using a term that is really gender specific. I apologize.

    I cannot imagine the extra difficulty you must have gone through because of your gender. So sorry! I fortunately never treated my wife that way.

  17. archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

    So what do you think of my Amurru/YHWH convergence theory?

    Like

  18. adisillusionist · October 15, 2015

    I find it very interesting! I would like to look into it further. I will probably wait until I get through other material. I am trying to take in so very much right now. Thanks for sharing it with me.

    Like

    • archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

      Not a problem. I won’t bug you about it until you’re ready to get back with me on it.

      Liked by 1 person

    • archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

      Anything you’d like to say about the biblical ‘flood’?

      Like

      • adisillusionist · October 15, 2015

        Well, I did “discuss it with a Christian professor not long ago over email. I came up with tons of problems with it and when he could no longer refute my arguments he resorted to everything associated with it was miraculous so it didn’t have to make sense.

        What thing about the flood might be the one thing I am mostly likely to have not heard? What do you think is the best proof it did not happen like the Bible says?

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

        Had you responded earlier, I might have been able to comment, but it’s after midnight here, so tomorrow – but between now and then, think cows —

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 15, 2015

        and methane gas poisoning?

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

        That’s certainly part of it —

        Liked by 1 person

      • Shane@firechildcreations.com · October 15, 2015

        I don’t know if there is much about the flood you haven’t heard or thought of, so I’ll tell another story that you possibly don’t know for some perspective.

        On 10th of August, 1968, the Swedish Warship “Vasa” was launched, after 2 years of design and construction by experienced ship builders and designers. She foundered and sank 1300 meters into her maiden voyage. Yet, four inexperienced men (hundreds of years old) plus their wives, built a “sea” worthy vessel, about twice the size of the Vasa, their first time out it, and lived on it for over a year.

        Shane

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 15, 2015

        Boy it would have helped if god had designed the Vasa

        Liked by 1 person

  19. archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

    As promised —

    Now the ark, by this god’s own blueprints (Genesis, 6:15), was three hundred cubits long, by fifty cubits wide, by thirty cubits deep – translated, assuming a cubit to be the standard definition’s eighteen inches, that means the ark was 450 feet long, by 75 feet wide, by 45 feet deep – basically the size of a small ocean liner. Volume-wise, that amounts to an entire volume of 1,518,750 cubic feet. Any ark that’s built to be watertight to hold back a deluge, must certainly have been airtight as well, as where air can go, so can water.

    If you’ll recall, from Genesis, Chapter 6:16, Noah was instructed to make only the one window, 1-cubit (18 inches) square, which hadn’t been opened for eleven solid months and two weeks:

    8:5, “And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
    8:6, “And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:

    Although the language is a little sketchy, this appears to say that the window was opened 40 days AFTER the tenth month.

    This would be the part where we talk for a moment about cows.

    Cows munch mostly grass and hay – yet they grow big and hefty. Why? Because of the rumen, the first and largest of a cow’s four stomachs. The rumen holds 160 liters (42 gallons) of food and billions of microbes. These microscopic bacteria and protozoa (single-celled organisms that reproduce by dividing) break down cellulose (plant-wall substance) and fiber into digestible nutrients. “A cow couldn’t live without its microbes,” says animal nutrition expert Dr. Floyd Byers of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

    But as the microbes digest cellulose, they release methane. The process, called enteric fermentation, occurs in all animals with a rumen (cows, sheep, and goats, for example), and it makes them very gassy. “It’s part of their normal digestion process,” says Tom Wirth of the EPA. “When they chew their cud, they regurgitate some food to rechew it, and all this gas comes out.”

    The average cow expels 600 liters – 157 gallons – of methane gas per day, climate researchers report. Let me repeat that, just so I can be sure you understand – one cow – ONE, count ’em, ONE! – produces 157 gallons of methane each day.

    Assuming a 28-30 day month, and most older calendars were based on a Lunar cycle, so let’s go with 28 just to be on the conservative side – over the either ten-month, or eleven-month, ten-day voyage, one single cow on board would have produced four hundred and thirty-nine thousand, six hundred (439,600) cubic feet of methane gas! And we know that there were either one or seven pairs of cattle on board. Assuming only one pair – again, to be conservative – that’s still 879,200 cubic feet of methane gas, just for the two cows!

    We have no way of knowing how many other species of animals there were on board – by all indications, thousands! – and they ALL farted, along with Skipper Noah and his fearless crew.

    I’ll admit it openly – I fart – and face it, you fart, Pat Robertson farts – in fact, anyone who doesn’t fart is a freak of nature, and probably in serious need of health care!

    Obviously, we must acknowledge that all of those animals occupied space on the ark, and the space they occupied must be subtracted from the total volume of the ark (1,518,750 cubic feet), if our intention is to determine just how much space was available to hold all of the methane gas produced by those animals over an eleven-month, ten-day period of time. But since none of us knows how many animals were purportedly on the ark, clearly we can’t make such an estimation, so we’ll stick with the amount of space available on an unoccupied ark, while realizing that the actual amount of available space, that could possibly contain methane, to be much, much less than our calculations – in other words, we’re using yet another conservative estimate.

    That means that it would have taken less than 3.5 such animals, the size of a cow, to completely fill the ark with methane gas in less than the time the ark was closed up, and don’t even get me started on elephants.

    Now with only one window, on a boat that large, and it, closed for the entire eleven months and ten days – the ark was dark. I mean that was one dark ark – without a window, in an air-tight ark, you couldn’t see your hand in front of your face.

    But surely they had lanterns, didn’t they? Or at least candles?

    Have you ever heard of a kid holding a lit match near his rear end, to see if the gas in his fart will light? Trust me, it will, but I’ve been assured that the hair will grow back. Methane is one of the most flammable gasses on the planet.

    So after eleven months and ten days of inhaling solid methane, feeding thousands of 3.5 animals and shoveling up after them, all of this in total darkness (unless they had glow-sticks), Noah finally opened the window, no doubt hacking, coughing and gasping for a lungful of fresh air.

    Let’s take a quick look at the end of the flood fable from the first known work of fiction, “The Epic of Gilgamesh,” written about two hundred years before the story of Noah was alleged to have taken place. The scene is the landing of the ark, and the disemb-ark-ation of Utinapishtim, the fictional king of Shurrupak, an actual ancient Sumerian city in Mesopotamia, located not far from modern-day Baghdad, Iraq, depicting the author’s imagination of what the REAL king of Surrupak, the actual, historical King Ziusudra might have done upon landing – the anonymous author writes that Utinapishtim offered a sacrifice to the gods that he and his family were safe, upon which:

    “The gods smelled the savor, the gods smelled the sweet savor and collected like flies over a sacrifice.”

    Interestingly, the Bible’s Noah did the same thing, with, it would seem, suspiciously identical results, (8:21) “the Lord smelled the sweet savor”!

    I learned the hard way while working on my Master’s Thesis, if you’re going to plagiarize, at least change the wording —

    Liked by 1 person

    • adisillusionist · October 15, 2015

      Very interesting. I do have to point out that before you wrote this I was able to sniff out where you were headed.

      Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

        Yes, I noticed that – de-scent of you to point that out.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

        Actually, I felt the most telling part was the biblical direct copying of the sacrifice scene in “Gilgamesh

        The actual flood, when the Euphrates overflowed its banks to a depth of 15 cubits (22.5 feet) about 2900 BCE, actually covered an area of approximately three counties.

        It’s rather chilling when you go down any of the four extant copies of the Sumerian Kings List and come to Ziusudra’s name, which is followed by the words, “…and then the flood swept over….</em"

        He was actually able to board a trading barge loaded with cotton, cattle and beer, and floated safely on down to the Persian Gulf, where I can only assume a limo was waiting to take him back.

        Liked by 1 person

    • archaeopteryx1 · October 19, 2015

      No one checked my math, did they? They should have, as it would have taken 72, not 3, animals the size of a cow to fill the ark with methane. My bad – it just kept nagging me that I was equating a gallon with a cubic foot of volume, whereas a gallon = 0.133681 cubic feet. I shall forever hang my head in shame, at least until the weekend.

      Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 19, 2015

        I did not think 3 was correct but I did not know for sure and did not have to time check out cow fart volume. I did like the whole concept and basic premise. Thanks for doing the math and giving us an update.

        Liked by 1 person

      • N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ · October 19, 2015

        ” but I did not know for sure and did not have to time check out cow fart volume.”

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 19, 2015

        Words to live by —

        Liked by 1 person

  20. archaeopteryx1 · October 15, 2015

    A big Rick Perry “oops! What a difference a > makes —

    Liked by 1 person

    • adisillusionist · October 18, 2015

      That it so horrible. What makes it so bad to me is the parents sincerely feel like they did the right thing.

      Like

  21. archaeopteryx1 · October 18, 2015

    From the article (above):

    As of February 2015, 39 states and the District of Columbia have “laws providing that parents or caretakers who fail to provide medical assistance to a child because of their religious beliefs are not criminally liable for harm to the child.” In addition, federal law does not require parents to provide medical treatments to children that are against their religious beliefs.

    Like

  22. archaeopteryx1 · October 18, 2015
    • adisillusionist · October 18, 2015

      I cannot imagine a room full of people all feeling this is what pleases god.

      Like

      • carmen · October 18, 2015

        “I cannot imagine a room full of people all feeling this is what pleases god.”

        Really?? It’s the same compulsion that it took to do a number on two towers. . 😦

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 18, 2015

        I guess it would be better to say “I can’t imagine being in a room full of people feeling like that pleases god.”

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 18, 2015

        Oddly enough, the two towers make more sense to me because that stemmed from a spiritual battle. The bombers felt like they were killing the enemy. Beating and killing a friend, child, fellow Christian makes less sense.

        I know that is only the case because of my upbringing and I hope in time it won’t be that way.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 18, 2015

        Violet (the commenter formerly known as Ain’tNoShrinkingViolet), informs me that her parents, since she left the church, seem reluctant to help her keep her special needs son in a school that has returned him nearly to normalcy (whatever that is –), but they’re willing to buy her an expensive sculpture of Jesus.

        [I don’t think I’m betraying a confidence, as none was implied]

        Liked by 2 people

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 18, 2015

        Being raised with the fear that certain things can cause you to burn in flames for all eternity, can do some strange psychological things.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 18, 2015

        yeah

        Like

  23. niceatheist · October 23, 2015

    Hey there,

    Victoria told me about your blog. I didn’t want to comment at first because I’m working on some things, but you’ve got my interest.

    Since deconverting, I walked away from my abusive Pentecostal parents and Southern Baptist in laws. I couldn’t take their toxicity anymore and they couldn’t handle me being the anti Christ. Ultimately, I am, I guess, because I’m an anti-theist atheist. Before I came out to my parents I came out to my best friend. She’s a Messianic Jew from NYC. It’s been two and a half years and I haven’t heard from her since that phone call.

    One thing I do recommend for you, three things actually: (1) a time of debriefing/detoxing from religion, which you may not be able to start until you are no longer in it unless (2) you find a secular counselor (I’m still looking for a therapist myself.) to discuss your religious past and current connections to it. (3) (This is something that I’m still having difficulty finding.) Start connecting with real life non believers. Cyber buddies are great, but you and your family might find yourselves going through times of extreme loneliness, abandonment and rejection. You will need people to visit with to discuss these issues. I’ve been an atheist for three and a half years. I still don’t have anyone like that in my life. I live in west Tennessee. I have Arkansas to my immediate west, and the bootheel of Missouri to the north of me. With Memphis and the state of Mississippi just south of me and just about the entire state of Tennessee to the east, I may never have an in the flesh non believing friend.

    I read about your extended family’s response to your recent decision. When you mentioned the vomiting, it reminded me of Pigs in the Parlor. They believe your “evil” life choice caused them to hurl out your “wickedness”. That’s further proof how years of extreme programming affects the brain. It does even more damage when the brainwashing begins while we’re still little children. I know this personally.

    I don’t know if any of my ramblings were helpful, I’m the resident blog hog. I just hope that you and your family find love and peace somehow. You have some of the best people on WordPress commenting here. Even when they don’t have the answers, they’re at least empathetic.

    Goodspeed, Newbie.

    Charity

    Liked by 2 people

    • adisillusionist · October 23, 2015

      Love your post! Yes I find it helpful! I agree we will need real life atheist friends.

      I have been through your area on more than one occasion. I know what it is like, and I can imagine finding an atheist there is like finding a needle in a hay stack.

      Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 23, 2015

        More like finding a drop of blue in a bucket of red.

        Liked by 2 people

  24. niceatheist · October 23, 2015

    Supposedly, Memphis is in the process of starting up a secular assembly. I still don’t know how exactly I feel about that, but I did contact them. I asked them what I needed to do to help them get going.

    We’ll see.

    Liked by 1 person

    • adisillusionist · October 24, 2015

      good deal!

      Have you ever noticed when you drive west out of Memphis, I think on 55 things always seem yo get “dull”the minute you hit Arkansas?

      Liked by 1 person

      • niceatheist · October 24, 2015

        Go to Johnny Cash’s home there. It’s down right depressing. It’s a town built on swampland during the Depression. As a result, the electric poles lean in various directions. Meth and poverty are prevelant there now. My Nana was from Pocahontas. I’m originally from Michigan and have lived all over. My ancestors were from all over the Mid South and strangely, it’s where I’ve ended up raising my boys. People here have no clue about my roots and continue to treat me as an outsider. It’s not right, but it’s okay. All the Yankees I’ve gotten to know here are dickheads. North, South, Black, White…douchery doesn’t discriminate.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 24, 2015

        I love that your monicker is NiceAtheist and one of your first nights here you have already used “dickhead” and “douchery”

        Like

      • niceatheist · October 24, 2015

        Oh, and yes, Johnny’s hometown is off of 55. Sorry, I was brought up AG. I learned to chase a lot of rabbits in conversations.

        Yeah, my honey bear is a retired sailor and I’ve got a mouth worse than his. Hell, all four of us swear all the time at home and in our cars.I don’t have an issue with my sons swearing. Just be glad that I didn’t join in on that sex post.

        I kept the name because it was the title of my blog. I thought atheists were too mean.As a new deconvert I was quite naive. I’ve thought about starting up again, but if I do I’m afraid that it’ll have to be titled “Not so Nice Atheist.”. I won’t even tell you my tag line.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 24, 2015

        I have no issue with language. Feel free to be yourself here.

        Like

      • niceatheist · October 24, 2015

        Yeah, you say that now, but may regret it later. Victoria has read some of my worst blasphemous filled rants ever. And she still chooses to keep me in her life.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 24, 2015

        I find the thought of blasphemy silly. How can anything be wrong when you are discussing something imaginary? Well, as long as the parties discussing it know it is imaginary.

        Like

      • niceatheist · October 24, 2015

        We do. When I first deconverted I couldn’t handle words like “blasphemy”, “heathen” and “godless”. I know that might sound strange. I guess it was because I had associated those words with the hell bound.

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 24, 2015

        It is funny how my instant reaction to some words is a cringe and immediately followed by quite an opposite reaction.

        For example: “God Damn It”. The reflex action is that feeling of fear and horror. That leaves immediately and I realize those are only a string of hash sounding phonetics used for the sound the make and reaction they elicit.

        The whole thing feels similar to the first time I watched a video online where a car was driving down a hill in a peaceful countryside. Just as the car was about to turn my way a horrible zombie-like face popped up and shrieked loudly!

        It stunned me with horror, but immediately seemed childish and almost funny. It is now funny to see others shocked by the video.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 24, 2015

        Did someone say, “Dickhead”?

        Liked by 1 person

      • adisillusionist · October 24, 2015

        Wow, just listened to the little ditty. Excuse me while I make a list of people I need to send that to on social media.

        Liked by 1 person

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 24, 2015

        Actually, it’s a catchy little tune that’s hard to get out of your head – I especially like the key change just before the last verse.

        If your list is that extensive, and you’d like a little variety, you might want to mix and match it with this:

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 24, 2015

        Message “That video does not exist” when I click on that link.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 24, 2015

        Oops, looks like some prude had it deleted.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 24, 2015

        Arkansas is a beautiful state. A friend who worked for me had a grandmother who had a mountain cabin in Northwest Arkansas, and he invited me and my girlfriend at the time, there for the weekend. We ran into the nearby town for supplies, where he met an old friend – the first words out of his mouth, were, “Hey, Lloyd, ya got any dope?

        Like

      • N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ · October 24, 2015

        “…the first words out of his mouth, were, “Hey, Lloyd, ya got any dope?”

        When my daughter and I moved to South Carolina, she was still in high school. She took the car to the car wash, and met a few kids there her age. She asked “So what do you all do around here for fun” (it was a small city). They answered: “crack and weed”. My heart sank when she told me that.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 24, 2015

        I can imagine!

        I kept a big fat joint in my jewelry box for when my son showed an interest in drugs – I thought that if he insisted on trying them, he should first do them with me, rather than in some parked car somewhere. He never showed any interest. He got drunk once, at a poker game at his friend’s house (while the boy’s parents were out of town), and because he didn’t fear me, he didn’t try driving the five miles home, but rather called me at midnight (waking me up), to tell me he’d been drinking and felt he’d better spend the night. I told him I thought it a great idea, rolled over and went back to sleep. From that time on, he never cared for alcohol, although I openly drank (socially, of course).

        Great kid and my best friend.

        Liked by 2 people

      • N℮üґ☼N☮☂℮ṧ · October 24, 2015

        That’s a great story. My mother is a smoker. One time I asked her if I could smoke one of her cigarettes. I was 7 or 8 at the time. She always seemed like she enjoyed them, so I was curious. To my surprise, she said, yes, and lit one up for me. She said, you can have one but you have to inhale, and you have to smoke the whole cigarette. Needless to say, I never picked up that disgusting habit.

        Like

      • archaeopteryx1 · October 24, 2015

        I did that when my son was seven – he doesn’t smoke either.

        Like

      • adisillusionist · October 24, 2015

        Arkansas has some very beautiful places, but that stretch west of TN is not one of them.

        Liked by 1 person

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